Episode 18: Navigating Industry Changes and Financial Instability With Care and Agency with Megan deBoer
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
It is acknowledging that there are things happening that I wouldn't choose in the economy and then it's also opening our eyes and asking the question, what is in my control? What is of my own power to influence?
Welcome to episode eighteen of the podcast where I chat with Megan deBoer about felt senses of financial instability and how to navigate forward with compassion and care. This is such an important conversation for anyone who have felt shifts in the industry.
Megan deBoer, founder of Tended Wealth, is a wealth doula in every sense of the term. She defines wealth as a multifaceted state of abundance in relationships, health, community, environment, and—of course—finances. Megan is a skillful tender of the relationship between inner shifts and outer results, using money as an entry point into full-spectrum wealth and reinfusing the word with its etymology of well-being.
Through her background as a literal birth doula and a certified Financial Recovery Counselor, Megan is equipped to transform her clients’ finances from states of potential into breathable, harmonious financial realities. While she currently specializes in empowering self-employed individuals to radically increase their earnings, her voice also plays a vital role in the greater movement of our cultural narrative around money.
Megan knows that money is only one energy and currency in our world—albeit a powerful one—and undertakes the joyful work of untangling dialogues of scarcity and fear in order to reweave them into new narratives of possibility, integration, and evolution.
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Read the Transcript:
Welcome to episode 18 of the Gentle Business Sessions, a podcast hosted by me, Ashley Beaudin, empowered by Marvelous and WillowSpace. It is so good to have you here. In this week's episode, I sit down and have a beautiful conversation with Megan DeBoer as we begin dive into some of the aspects around shifting in the industry, felt senses of financial decline or insecurity and how to lead ourselves and move ourselves through that in a way that is not bypassing but that is nourishing and supportive.
I hope that as you listen in on this conversation that you will feel And be inspired in self compassion and know that you are not alone, that you are seen and that you are incredibly important. Let's dive in.
Ashley: All right, Megan. I'm so excited to have you here on the Gentle Business Sessions. Thanks so much for joining me today.
Megan: Thank you so much for having me, Ashley. This is really a pleasure.
Ashley: I always love the opportunity to sit with you, and I guess we've only done it one other time.
Megan: I think so, yeah.
Ashley: But it feels like more.
Megan: I know, it does. It does. It does.
Ashley: Which is amazing. I have so much, um, respect and delight really for the work that you do and the approach that you bring to it and the nuance that you, that you, I find it such a gift when I almost like to call them like artists of nuance where people can really embrace the artistry and nuance, which can be, sometimes not the easiest thing to find.
And I, I see that in your, in your work and the way you speak about things, and so very grateful for that in you. But for those of who have not met you, is there anything you'd like to share about who you are and the work you do?
Megan: Hmm. Well thank you for all of that. And uh, yes, I will just say. Briefly, the work that I feel, uh, I mean, nuance is a, is a perfect segue into, um, into how I see my work because my work really resides at the intersection of the, our practical and emotional relationship with money.
And I have been referring to myself over the last year or so as a wealth doula. Nuance I see as inherent to that. So there are just layers and layers and layers within the complexity of our. Our relationship with money and what, um, this work tends to touch, you know, money touches all aspects of our life.
So it tends to touch into every single realm of someone's life. And I have the honor and privilege of meeting people there, um, and supporting and guiding them through that, whether that's directly or indirectly.
Ashley: Yeah, what do you, what do you feel like is one of your favorite things about the work you do?
Megan: Oh, well, absolutely. Hands down. My favorite thing is just witnessing someone come into their own, you know, real reclaiming of what, you know, their own relationship with money is and the unfolding that takes place from there. So it's, it's like witnessing someone moving from being very anxious and overwhelmed and insecure around money to feeling very confident and clear and, uh, where they are taking action and witnessing that evolution within them is by far the most incredible gift that I, um, that this work has for me.
And it's, um, yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking of a client that I worked with the other day and just, I've worked with this client for several years on and off. And, you know, the trajectory of her path and where she is in this moment.
It's like, I could see on her face, this embodied, confident, clear, very direct way of being and acting in the world with money that was not there at the beginning. So it was just like those subtle shifts and witnessing that is just.
There's nothing like it in the whole world.
Ashley: There's something so sacred in that witness. When I had asked you to be on the, if you would come on the show, um, I knew that it would be something around money, but as I was like preparing for our interview, I really wanted to talk to you about this thing I'm really seeing in the work of. Both with my clients and then just within the online industry at large, uh, where it seems like, I don't even know totally how to put words to it, but it almost seems like there's overall this felt sense of insecurity, financial insecurity, or even if it's not like full on financial insecurity, it's like something's changed.
Yes. People are like, Oh no. Like. It's allowing for this onset, obviously, of panic. I want to talk to Megan about this on the podcast about how do we navigate this, or do you have any perspectives on what you think might be going on?
Megan: Such an important question. And especially for right now. So I would love that you're bringing this question forward. And I think there are multiple things at play. I think there is there is a reality and a shift that we're experiencing, particularly in the online business world. Um, but in general, collectively.
The economy, whether it is, you know, I don't know that it's helpful to put a name to what might be happening in the economy, because they're all different factors that we can point to. But the feeling that many people are experiencing is that felt sense of insecurity. And so I want to just name that we are collectively experiencing an acute evolution and a rapid change in on every level.
And because money is so intimately tied with, you know, In our bodies, in our psyches as the symbol and reality of security and stability, that the feeling of that insecurity of the incredible change that we're all experiencing, the anxiety is actually projected onto money.
And it's not. It's not, um, it's not that it's not happening in the financial realm because it absolutely is. There's a very, very real experience for, um, most people is the experience of uncertainty. At the very least, it's like, I don't know what the next months are going to hold in my business, but it's important for all of us to recognize that we are human and we are experiencing this on a very, um, You know, in our bodies, in our minds and in our hearts as insecurity.
And to whatever degree there is truth to that in our lived experience, we can be picking on the collective experience. We can be absorbing that. And I think it's really important for all of us to become very skilled at naming that fear and naming that sense of insecurity. I am feeling financially insecure, or I'm, I'm not feeling financially stable, or wow, my bank account says that I'm stable, but I don't feel stable and being able to recognize the difference between that, because, um, I think so often we just, Um, the, the two are so intimately intertwined that we don't see them as separate and we can create almost create a reality for ourselves or experience the fear of the financial without ever acknowledging what's actually happening.
What the emotional response is that our body is going through, um, at the same time. So to me, it's like first naming it, I'm feeling insecure and then asking, you know, is this mine or is this collective can be a helpful, um, way to distinguish and discern what is ours and what, what we are maybe picking up on.
And it's probably some of both. And then to get really clear on what is my truth, what is the truth of my, my actual lived reality in this moment? Um, because so often we can be in a pattern, not, not always, not when it is real and it is acute, but we can be pattern of feeling like kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.
And even though things are actually okay. In this moment, there's that, that anxiety needs somewhere to cling to, and it just can perpetuate and perpetuate and keep us in that state. So those are, that's a lot of what I'm seeing, um, sensing into and yeah, just some thoughts that I have around it. And I'd love to hear what you're too.
Ashley: I really love, like, as you were talking, I was listening, I. I really can bear witness to the feeling of the contagion almost effect of the message and then that when I am afraid. I often do not feel safe and when I do not feel safe, I'm not taking action, which if I'm not taking action, then it can become like in some ways a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.
I can see, I can see that in some of my own story and, um, in many others. And it can be really hard to see that though, like when, as it's happening. And so I think by even naming it, like, As a, maybe like a reflective point, yes, that there might be such, such a compassion in there for people to notice and see.
Megan: Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Exactly. And, um, and naming it is the 1st step of allowing it to have a place to land, you know, for it to not be just sort of this soup that you're existing in, but actually. Um, it can, it can land somewhere and you can hold it a little bit differently. And it's also by naming it. It's also a call of like, wow, I'm feeling really insecure and unstable.
What are some strategies? What are some tools? What are, what are some soothing that I can provide for myself around that? And that actually moves us. More quickly out of that freeze, you know, not doing not taking action, not doing what we know we need to do. It can move us out of that and, um, and support us so that it isn't going, you know, it isn't either perpetuating the situation…
Or becoming the self fulfilling prophecy or, um, where we are all of a sudden in a very reactive state and not, um, responding to a situation, but we're actually reacting and that can look like, especially for those people who are self employed. And people who are employed, but self employed people in particular taking on work that's not actually in alignment or not in your best interest long term, that reactive fear, you know, that that instability insecurity is going to drive that reactive state a lot more.
And that again, may in the short term and the long term create that self fulfilling prophecy.
Ashley: Yeah, which I guess really brings up a question for me of when you are having a felt sense on some level of financial insecurity, is it possible? Or how do you hold a vision of wealth?
Megan: Yeah, that's such a good question.
And I, as it's so hard to get there, you know, it's so hard to get there when you're in that state. And. And it's really important to, to not, I think what can happen in that is that there is a, there's, there's almost either, either it's paralyzing fear, I mean, there, there are reactions, but one is paralyzing fear.
Another is , jumping out quickly from that paralyzing fear into fantasy and. Slating between the two. This thing, this, this solution, this rescue is going to come and, um, and take me out of this, of this position. So knowing those two extremes on either end of the spectrum. What is so important, and I, and this is where I believe especially this, this can be helpful for all of us, but especially if you are in an acute financial situation where things are not, um, they, they really are tight and there you, you feel very far away from wealth as it, as you want it to be.
You can begin anchoring to other forms of wealth besides money. Really see those and start feeling into them, the wealth of your, you know, maybe it's community, maybe it's friends, maybe it's family. Maybe it's, um, the soft couch that you have to sit on with your, your love, your beloved animal. Maybe it's, um, that you have a pantry full of food. Maybe it is that you have a tree that you can go out and stand under. It's like, what roots us? And looking beyond just money, because money is only one of many wealths as I see it.
And so really opening up an expanded vision and widening the aperture of what wealth is, can anchor us to the truth of that other wealth. Um, even if it's just in our own bodies, you know, maybe there's somewhere that feels really expansive in our own bodies in that moment. That's what we have to do. And then from there, then we start to explore and expand and, you know, think about this is a circumstance.
This is not a permanent state. F rom here. I'm moving forward and I can hold that vision of wealth that I'm moving toward. That is all, like, if I can imagine it, I am moving toward it. I can be curious about what that holds. I can be, um, experiencing in my imagination what that will, what that will feel like, and I can hold that in me in this moment.
Right now, without going into the fantasy of rescue without being in denial of where you actually are in this present moment, but to me, I'm really broadening the view from wealth in terms of monetary wealth, especially in that acute experience.
Ashley: I think it's so important. Yeah, I think that there's a lot of opportunity for all of us in that. There's a sense that keeps coming to me of like, there is a richness and so much of all of the human experience that has absolutely nothing to do with money. And that can allow that, that anchoring or almost like that through line into a vision of what could be. I have been thinking a lot about the power of reclaiming agency. In our finances in light of some of this conversation, because when we get brought into this rhetoric, it can feel like agency disappears.
Yes, well, like, this is something that's happening and I have no control, no power to change it. And, like, I just got to, like, board my house and, like, close the windows and brace myself for the impact. And so I'm curious about what you think it could like to reclaim. Agency when we're in these variances.
Megan: Yes, this is such an excellent question. And I think that that sense of powerlessness, you know, this is happening. This is happening externally from me and I have no control over it. And there will always be things that are out of our control, but there's always elements that are in our control and when we forget that there are things that we, we do have the ability to influence and, uh, affect.
In our lives, when we forget that, um, we become incredibly vulnerable. And so it is, it is remembering first and foremost, yes, there are things happening that I wouldn't choose in the economy, the world, and in the realm of my control, where. Like take stock, you know, first remember that. And then it's like open opening our eyes and asking the question, what is in my control?
What is, um, of my own power to influence? And that can be as radical and simple as I am going to do a really clear inventory of how much money. I actually have in my checking account, in my savings account, how long will that last if I made no more money right now and really being in the tension of that, um, of those very practical questions that help to influence Very real choices that you might make and that it doesn't stop there.
It is, especially if you're self employed, it is, where do I have the ability? And we all do, if we are self employed, um, where do I have the ability to generate more revenue and given, given the current climate, how can I respond to this creatively? Yeah. And that's where, um, we have so much more access to that creative solution based, empowered, um, thinking when we have acknowledged the emotional reaction that we might be having to the situation.
That's why that, what we were just talking about before, like naming, naming how you feel and taking care of that part is such an important part of that process. That's when we can access all of the possibility that is always available to us. It just requires maybe a different way of thinking, um, but that's where the agency is.
It's, I get to, I get to influence what this looks like. This is, um, again, this is a circumstance. I'm creatively meeting, meeting it in this moment.
Ashley: Right. Yeah, in earlier in the conversation you, which I feel like I maybe asked you about this. I'm having a deja vu, pretty sure I asked you about it at the time we spoke before, um, but this idea of rescue and, you know, some might say, like, add a little bit of an outsourcing of power, and not always looking for it, sometimes not looking for it in terms of a person, but looking for it in terms of an idea or a decision or a program, but that heart kind of like that posture internally is kind of screaming, will someone please rescue me from this fear in this. Thing that I want to escape. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Megan: Yes. Well, first of all, it is just so human. Yeah, it's so human to want, to have, to, to want that rescue, to want that in, in all of its forms, you know, whether it's a person or a lottery or a, um, or an idea or, you know, cashing in on, you know, like having your business purchased or whatever, it can, it can look so many different ways.
It's But that exactly, as you said, that internal posture is like, um, I can't like a, like a sort of deflated. I can't do this alone. I, I need something from the external to come in and rescue, rescue me to alleviate, um, alleviate the situation that I'm in. And I think it's important here to also be. Like the rescue is, um, I mean, there are so many layers to it, like it is, it is a very powerless kind of a state, like what we're talking about, what we're describing is a very powerless state.
And I also just want to hold that, like, it also doesn't mean that we have to do everything alone, you know, sometimes the agency. Is also asking for support in whatever way we need support. It's just remembering that we are the ones to take that initiative to, to initiate and influence our lived experience rather than waiting for it to just drop into our laps or happen to us.
Um, yeah. Yeah. So I think, um, yes. So first, just the recognition that it is just so, cool. Natural and that, and to see when it does come, when those thoughts come in to really explore, um, what is my state? Like, am I resourced? Have I, am I taking care of myself? Because so often it's at a moment when we are legitimately exhausted and tired.
And, um, whether that's physically. Or emotionally or psychically, we are exhausted. And so sometimes it's a cue of like, I actually need to rescue myself and say, time out, go take care of yourself, restore and replenish, and then come back and reclaim the agency and reclaim what it is you need.
But, um, yes, I think. To me, it's the rescue fantasy is always such an important thing to listen to and to get curious and like, what are the conditions, what's happening around that moment where you have that fantasy or the fantasy gets really loud, what's happening around that, um, where I can then look at reclaiming that power to hold it within myself.
Ashley:Those are all really beautiful things to pay attention to. I'm also really struck, which is in some ways is a bit of a different conversation, but I'm also really struck by, I know for me, when I feel a deep desire to be rescued, I am potentially triggered in some form, or I am in some way really tapped into a younger version of myself.
Version of who I am, where I feel like in the younger part, I don't have access to rescuing myself. access to resource or power or agency. And I want to bring that up because I think it is important to pay attention to in someone's story based on their lived experiences.
Megan: Yes, yes, that's such a, such an important point.
That desire, especially like that younger part of yourself that you begin to notice, um, that can really bring us to a place that is ready for healing. And that can be up to, wow, this is, this is, and this is where the agency comes in. It's time for me to reach out for support from someone that I trust to help hold me and through repair or, uh, facilitate that for myself about what, what I didn't get when I needed it. Or what was maybe modeled to me, um, that, that I didn't get and, uh, and so, yes, that is such an important part is to recognize, um, what is coming up. What is coming up in, in me, um, as I'm meeting this moment, that might be from my past.
Ashley: And it's another really amazing example of how business can be a vehicle to bring us towards wholeness healing. Becoming these important pieces that are integral to being human. Yeah, it's important stuff, but it's also not the easiest.
Megan: It is not. It is not the easy. In fact, it's really hard.
It is really hard. And I think money, like money being at the intersection in business, uh, like it literally is our livelihood. It literally financial stability and sense of security. And so this intersection, and that's why, you know, right now , it's really like the focus, the primary focus of my work is with people who work for themselves because.
It is so intense and the money piece is like right at the, the nexus point of so much of it. And there is a lot of healing and, and a lot gets, um, unearthed in that space. A lot gets activated in that space.
Yeah, there are layers and, and layers and, and layers and what I, what I love about like the flip side of that is like, if you, those, you know, listening, if you experience any little, like, However, subtle or extreme it is along the spectrum, if you are noticing patterns around money specifically, and you're addressing them, talk about bringing you into wholeness, like it really is one of the most potent entry points and has sort of the domino ripple effect in many areas at the same time.
So that's the, the beautiful thing when we're able and, um, willing to step in. To the, um, discomfort, even if that discomfort is like just naming that we are feeling some insecurity, some financial insecurity or instability, that is very brave and that can be very healing just to name it.
Ashley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It's something I feel like I've been coming into more and more is like, I think sometimes there can be a pressure on the Internet to constantly sound more and more profound.
And I've been just thinking a lot about, like, the things that are actually profound are like the simplest things that we just return to over and over. And I mean, a lot of that comes into this of, yeah, even though it's an example, naming, putting language to something is so simple, having compassion in some ways can sound so simple, but there's such a richness in these.
In these simple things. Like, I don't know, sometimes I find we can complicate, you know, almost overly complicated and be like, no, it's got to be something else. Like I need a more magical solution. Um, but there's such a, yeah, such a richness in the most, the most simple ways of being with ourselves and what is there.
Megan: Well said. And yeah, I mean, it's. It, in so many ways, it's like, it sounds so, yeah, it is so simple to just name how healing, and it is also profound just because of it. Let's see, like if we're willing to be there with it and actually hold it and feel it in our bodies, that's actually, that's where the work really is, is holding the space for ourselves to be with the discomfort of even ignoring it.
Because in acknowledging we are also simultaneously unconsciously acknowledging maybe layers of, uh, the fear of failure. Or, the fear that maybe we won't make it, or, the fear of our worthiness or the, the, the doubt of our worthiness, all of that is also present, co present with that acknowledgement.
And so it's like, no, no, it is the bravest thing to step into that, to acknowledge it and not to skip. skip, hop and jump right over that feeling.
Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. I totally, totally agree. Cause it's, I think it's also the probably the more vulnerable work, which we would sometimes like to avoid by chasing out a new, more profound strategy.
Megan: Exactly. Exactly. The new shiny strategy and tactic.
Ashley: Is there, um, before we wrap it up, is there anything else you want to share around this topic that we didn't speak to?
Megan: I think just, That we didn't share explicitly, but I think it's so important for us to just acknowledge, um, the context that we may have grown up in and our relationship, our lived experience, our relationship with stability, or the lack of stability. Instability and, um, whether that was in our childhood or in our adulthood, even though to really and recognize, um, that context as informing our current experience with whatever.
With whatever we might be going through, so just to really be gentle with yourself, um, with all of ourselves about what is coming up in the present moment, um, and to tend, tend to that in this moment. Yeah, it's beautiful. I, I, uh, and every podcast episode saying the same thing, which is. Be gentle with you because you are so deserving of care, beautiful way to sort of allow us in this conversation.
And anyone listening to relish in that. Yes, savor that. That's beautiful. Thank you. so much, Ashley, for having me.
Thank you so much for being here today and taking a listen in on this nourishing conversation. I hope that it has brought you a lot of support. If you find yourself with thoughts, questions, that would feel supportive to share, feel free to send me an email. I would absolutely love to hear from you. To end, I want to share two things.
Number one, I want to share that My pop up offer, Soften Into Sales, was announced this week. This is a three day online workshop.
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And I would absolutely love to have you join. If it calls you at all, feel free to go check out the details. You can catch the link in my Instagram bio. On the website or in the show notes of this episode. The next thing I want to mention is I want to highlight one of the features of Marvelous. One of the partners of this podcast.
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I hope that today, wherever you are, whatever you're up to, whatever's going on inside of you, outside of you, or all around you, that you are gentle with you because you are so very deserving of care.