Episode 16: Business as Self-Care with Tamu Thomas
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
Let your business be boring so that it can be more predictable and find joy and excitement in your life.
Welcome to episode sixteen of the podcast where I chat with Tamu Thomas about business as self-care. This episode is such a passionate and nuranced conversation around our safety and our satisfaction and how business can support our needs.
Tamu Thomas is a transformational life coach and former social worker, specialising in helping women achieve work-life harmony by aligning with their nervous system for holistic well-being.
Her book, "Women Who Work Too Much: Break Free from Toxic Productivity and Find Your Joy," offers groundbreaking insights to help women liberate themselves from the systemic pressures that create an environment where women over-function to survive workplace stress and the unequal burden of emotional and domestic responsibilities.
With her social work background, Tamu deeply understands the systemic issues that contribute to workplace stress and the unequal distribution of emotional labour. Recognised as a thought leader, Tamu has been featured in notable publications such as Vogue and Forbes, and engages a wide audience through her Instagram and podcast. Her book, celebrated by Emma Gannon and Kelechi Okafor, provides practical and empowering guidance for women.
Tamu’s unique approach, rooted in somatic coaching and Polyvagal informed practice, empowers women to reconnect with their core selves, establish healthy boundaries, and build self-trust. Her work is particularly resonant in addressing the unique challenges faced by women of colour under what she describes as, ‘the trinity of oppression” - patriarchy, white supremacy and capitalism. In Tamu's words, "We don’t need more self improvement, we need systemic change”. Her insights are essential for anyone seeking fulfilment, meaningful connection and joy in today's fast-paced world.
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Read the Transcript:
Ashley: Welcome to episode 16 of the Gentle Business Sessions. A podcast hosted by me, Ashley Beaudin. And powered by Marvelous and WillowSpace. It is so good to have you here.
In this week's episode, I have a beautiful conversation with Tamu Thomas, as we talk about business as self care and we really go into a bunch of different aspects of what it looks like to run a business that does not call you to sacrifice your wellbeing in order for it work, but really calls for self care, self-leadership and self-trust, and I really enjoyed this conversation. Tamu is a prolific communicator. And you'll really feel that in this interview. There is such permission that she brings. And I am so excited for you to hear it.
Ashley: Thank you so much for being here.
Tamu: Thank you for having me, Ashley.
Ashley: You know, it's somewhat rare for me to find someone with shared kindred, kindredness in our, in my work in messaging. And I, when I found your work, I, I found that gift. And so I definitely, you were definitely someone that I wanted to have on the show. So I am really looking forward to what we could get into. For those who haven't met you yet. Would you share a little who you are, what you do?
Tamu: My name is Tamu Thomas. I very recently became a published author. My debut book, Women Who Work Too Much, was published on the 5th of March. Um, I was able to write that book because I am a coach for women who have values driven, socially conscious businesses who want to create a business that works for them as well.
They are women who are ambitious, but not in a hustly kind of way and want to make their purposeful businesses profitable without jacking up their nervous systems. And, um, I came to that work through my own experience of burnout. I was a children and family social worker for 16 years, 18 months to two years of which I had my own private practice and I started my private practice because I didn't know what burnout was at the time.
I've never heard of that before. I didn't really know what anxiety was unless it was in the client group I was working with. So I didn't know what high functioning anxiety was. Um, but I was experiencing burnout. I was living in a state of high functioning anxiety and I thought that going independent and having my own social work practice would allow me to have more work life balance.
I'd heard of work life balance and that's what I was aiming for. Until one day I was going to court, it was a contentious court case, but I dealt with those all the time. I was a very competent expert witness, I was used to giving evidence in court, even in court, uh, cases that were very hostile. And on that occasion I came out of, uh, the train station and literally felt like I was going to collapse.
I'd had similar feelings to that before, but nothing to this extent. And I was literally holding on to a bus stop. I felt like I forgot how to exhale. I was, I just had a sharp inhale and felt like I didn't know what to do. Felt like my kneecaps had disappeared. Um, and thankfully as a social worker, I had some tools to ground myself and thought I can't ignore this anymore.
Went to see my doctor, who referred me to psychotherapy services. And they basically said, we're gonna just go through everything you've shared. And they said, it sounds like you have been experiencing a severe level of moderate depression. And you've left that and you've tried to outwork it, so it's manifested, well they didn't say manifested, so it's become anxiety and that anxiety has been left unchecked and what you're referring to as heightened periods of anxiety are actually panic attacks and these are all ways your body is trying to say to you enough is enough.
And at that point, I was relieved because I had permission to take care of myself. Prior to that, I was very much subscribed to the idea of mindset and mind over matter, and I was trying to mindset my way out of my experience and, you know, Bessel van der Kolk or whatever his name is said it best, your body keeps the score.
And my body was saying, I've kept the score for so long, you've got to pay up now. So I looked for something I could do that would allow me to be my multi passionate, multi-interested self and utilize my social work skills to support women who were having a similar experience to me. Because what I found in my burnout healing journey is that I was surrounded by a disco ball of women reflecting back a similar version of my experience, which made me realize it wasn't that I was bad or ineffective or unorganized or lacking in ambition. It was actually something wider than me. And it was impacting most of the women I could see, whether it was in my personal circle, online or elsewhere.
Ashley: Wow. And so from there, when you, you know, took it to more of the business side of, um, did any of that carry over into business or were you able to start a new way of being or working in that business?
Tamu: I point blank refused to carry that over into my business. What I realized was that our conditioning creates an environment where totally organizing your life around work is normalized. And once I saw that, I was like, oh, but work, you know, I was a social worker. So we were always talking about needs and unmet needs all the time.
And I thought, but work is supposed to support you to meet your needs. Um, and I decided I wanted to create work that met my needs. I'm a mother. My daughter is now. uh, 17, but when I was a social worker and saw how much it impacted my ability to mother her the way I wanted to, I was very clear that I would work for myself so that when she was of an age where she was able to do the journey to and from school on her own, that I would be around, that I'd be able to talk to her about her day, that as she grew and became more emotionally intelligent, I would be able to have conversations with her that would be supportive for her.
And I wanted to role model something different to what I had been role modeled as a child. So for me, setting up my business was an opportunity to do things differently. And I don't talk about work life balance because nothing in nature is balanced. It's in harmony and in cycles. So I know, and she's known for a very long time, like she's always my priority, but there are some times that the harmony of my work and life will mean that sometimes life will take precedent.
And sometimes work will take precedent, but I don't live like that. So when I'm launching a product, or if I'm changing something, my work will require more of my attention. Um, but that's for finite periods of time. My work doesn't totally dominate my life. And the more I grew into that, the more I started Sharing a message that your work can be part of your self care, which does ruffle some people's feathers because they're like, I don't want my self care anywhere near my work.
I don't want it to be limited, but I'm very keen to be a trailblazer, pioneer, whatever it is for a message, um, encouraging us to remember that we work to meet our needs. And our need is to be able to live well, and we will not live well if we are taking toxic productivity culture into our businesses. And if you're employed, if you're not taking the time to work out how you can be productive in a manner that is not just healthy and sustainable, but also regenerative.
Ashley: Yeah. I would love to hear you, hear you speak a little bit more on this idea that business can, can be or is, uh, self care.
Tamu: So if you think about like we work to meet our needs, um, there came a point in evolution where we started to exchange money for the things we need. Um, so work was a means for us to meet our needs. So when we can remember that through our genes, through the signals our bodies are sending us, through the wisdom of our bodies that has been refined and developed over millennia, when we tune in and listen to ourselves, we will start to be, uh, be, we will start to develop more holistic success standards.
So when we think about success, what we've been conditioned to believe is that success is gain, and not just material gain, but hoarding that material gain. It is purchasing material goods so that we can display so that other people can perceive us to be successful and working long hours so that we can prove how hard we work to hoard this money that enables us to buy material goods.
That's not satisfactory. It might be career success, the way it's defined in a system of capitalism, patriarchy and white supremacy. But when you think about what it is to be human, and you zoom out and create a more holistic picture of what success is, so you're not just creating success at work, you're aiming for a successful life, you will see that success is tethered to satisfaction and fulfilment.
When we think about what is satisfying in terms of our lives, like what is satiating, what makes life feel like a banquet for us instead of the crumbs that are left after we've devoted ourselves to work, people don't talk about wanting to work more.
Bronnie Ware, wrote a book, I think it was about 15 years ago, The Five Regrets of the Dying. No one is talking about, Oh, I wish I launched one more offer. I wish I worked four more hours a day. Everybody talks about wishing they were more authentic, wishing they spent more time with the people they love, wishing they talked more about, uh, the people, talked more about how, They love their people and let their people know how much they're appreciated and valued.
So when we think about what gives life meaning, what helps us feel grounded and connected, like we belong to ourselves and each other, it's not the endless amounts of money that we can never spend in our lifetime. It's not a amazing handbag, and it's not success that means nothing because we're only success as successful as what we did yesterday in a system of capitalism.
When we start to think about success as creating the income necessary for me to feel safe, so I can spend time with my loved ones so I can spend time with myself. So, uh, an appreciation of beauty is like one of the, one of my things, so I can spend time. I don't have to fly. to some fancy destination, I can spend time in my local community, walking through my local park, and appreciating the beauty, because I'm not in a hurry to get home so I can get on with some work.
It means that you're able to feel grounded and safe inside your body, as opposed to constantly trying to escape it, because in a system of capitalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy, your body is the enemy. Your body saying, it's enough now, I need rest, makes your body the enemy of progress. Your, um, your brain saying, I've been spinning out for two hours now, there's nothing left to give.
You won't start saying, oh, I've got a mindset problem. You'll understand that as a human being. It is not healthy for us to be sitting down at a desk all day doing the same thing And going out for a walk to appreciate the beauty in your local neighborhood will feel like it's part of your work day as opposed to something that's impeding your work day So that's how we start to think about Uh, work as our self care and when we can do that, we can, especially as business owners, rather than taking corporate ways of being into our businesses, we can start to think, well, what helps me operate at my optimal capacity?
What helps me be productive in a manner that is healthy, sustainable and regenerative. So for me, that looks like I don't, unless I have to, and there are some times when I have to, because of time zones or whatever, but I don't, my work day doesn't start before 1030. That time from my wake up, uh, till 1030, that time is mine because when I'm able to do the things that make me feel good and grounded and cherished and respected, it means that I've got more energy and I'm able to utilize that energy better during the day, as opposed to scraping the bottom of the barrel and things that I could do in two hours taking me two days because I'm tired.
Ashley: I know that there's so much gold in what you just said. There's so much in there, but I, one thing I would love to pull out of there and maybe chat a little bit more about is a lot of something I've witnessed for a lot of folks is that they get like really burnt out on this way of working that is fast and harsh and all the time. And then they sort of move to this other extreme of, well, now I don't want to work, I don't want to work at all and I don't want to do anything. And then they struggled to find like this health, almost like this healthy way of working. don't know if you have any thoughts on that.
Tamu: Yeah. I think because a lot of us get so wounded by the rigorous structure of corporate life or whatever our employment experience has been, we say we want freedom. We want to be able to march to the beat of our own drum, and we don't want to have these boring systems, these rigid systems. But what we don't realize is that.
We do need, like, everything in life operates in a rhythm, even the Earth beats in a rhythm. Uh, in the Northern Hemisphere, our weather beats in a rhythm. We ha well, in the UK, it's a bit of a mixed bag, but technically. We have spring, which makes way for summer, which makes way for autumn, which makes way for winter.
There are processes, rituals, routines, schedules, or whatever. It's about, you know, as women and people who menstruate, we have a rhythm. that we flow with. So if you look to nature, like that's one of my biggest coaches and guides, there is a natural order to things, there is a natural rhythm. And it's about us not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but looking at the system and the structure that brings out the best in us.
Now, when we are used to the chaotic nature of the systems and structures of employment, um, which is about extraction and commodification, getting as much out of us as it can in a short time, that can feel really chaotic. And our nervous system responds to the data we give it on a regular basis. And when your nervous system is used to chaos, the peace we can derive from having a ritual, routine, schedule, whatever you want to call it, strategy that brings out the best in us, that piece can feel really boring at first.
So we can end up sabotaging it. Because we're looking for this excitement and this freedom. And what I say to my clients is let your business be boring so that it can be more predictable and find that joy and excitement in your life.
In my book, I talk about productivity and work becoming the new religion. We believe that our work should be the source of absolutely everything. So we start talking about, we want our work to be joyful, we want our joy, our work to be fun. Well actually, Let your life be joyful. Let your life be fun.
And I'm not saying let, don't have any fun or enjoyment in your business, but when you have those boring processes, so you know what you're supposed to be doing and when, it gives you freedom to start doing the adventure, adventurous, creative things in your business on top of that steady rhythm that's going to bring you the income that will enable you to feel safe.
Otherwise you end up in a position when you're constantly in the fight flight free cycle with your business and your business becomes a replica of an authority figure that let you down in childhood. Whether that is a parent that misunderstood you, the educational system that wanted you to fit in and you weren't allowed to be yourself.
Sometimes even the bully at school your, your business becomes a symbol for that because you're in a fight or flight relationship.
Ashley: I’ve definitely seen that play over for myself, both for myself and for, uh, many that I know. And even that, even that alone could be a little bit of a mind blowing awareness for, yeah. Something that, uh, I've heard you mention a couple times, which I am in full love with, is making, you know, making enough money for you to feel safe.
And I would love to hear any perspective you might have on those who get caught in, you know, famine and feast cycles with money slash sales in their business where, you know, it's like one month for maybe for a few months, it's incredible. And then it's like the next few months, it's an extreme low. Do you see any, is there any information in some of those patterns from the nervous system?
Tamu: Yeah, the nervous system is used to, um, is used to that dysregulation, it knows what to do. So, you know, the system will always defend the system, our nervous system, our intelligence is based on predictability. So if you want to change that, it will feel unsafe. So, you know, peace feels, uh, dangerous to a system that is used to chaos.
We see that playing out in our politics all the time. Um, in, in every country of this world, it feels like. So we have to, you know, you know, our nervous system responds to data, so we have to give it credible data. So I see the boom and bust cycle happen the most in people who either haven't really set themselves goals or their goals are based on what they see around them, as opposed to what they need in their lives.
And when people come to work with me, this is a piece of work they avoid at all costs, and um, sometimes get really cross about, is to get really honest about your figures, not looking at invoices, not thinking about what you spend, actually pulling up your bank statement and looking at what you spent money on over the past three months.
I'd say even go for a year, but we can start at the past three months. So you can have an accurate picture of what your income and expenditure is. It's not uncommon, actually. Ot is the exception rather than the rule for people to know what their income and expenditure is when they start working with me and I invite people to closely look at everything they're spending their money on to see where they're spending money unnecessarily, hoping that outsourcing will remedy their issue when actually it's an inner problem as opposed to something they need to throw money at.
Um, there was one occasion I did that with somebody and, uh, she was able to identify that she was spending a thousand pounds a month on things that she hoped would make a difference, but she didn't have the capacity to engage in. So they were not making a difference. None of the things like the memberships and coaching programs, none of them were bad or no good.
She just didn't have the capacity to engage. So by cutting those alone, she has saved 12, 000 in her year. So she was already 12, 000 better off simply by doing that exercise. The next thing is to think about the life you want to live and be radically honest about how much that's going to cost. So I, um, have a form and I tell people to give themselves two hours at least to do this piece of work so they can do the research.
They can look at the type of house they want to live in in the type of neighborhood they want to live in and work out what the mortgage repayments would be and what kind of deposit they would need for a house like that, the type of car they want to drive. Um, over here in the UK, we have the National Health Service, but there are many people who don't want to have those waiting times, either because they don't want to, or because they've got a health issue. How much would private healthcare cost?
If you want to save a certain amount a month, if you want to invest a certain amount a month, put all of down on a piece of paper that's going to give you the data about how much money you want to make. And then you can start to make powerful choices.
When I first started in the coaching industry, everything was about six figures.
It hadn't quite moved on to the seven figures and multi seven and eight figures yet. And being a social worker, where in my last full time role, I was getting paid under 47, 000 pounds a year. The idea of more than doubling that was very dysregulating for my nervous system, not because I didn't want it. I just had so many messages about what it took to be able to create that type of income.
When I did this exercise myself, I'm a single parent. I live in London. It's one of the most expensive cities to live in, in the world. When I took into consideration the all the things, the savings for me, the savings for my daughter, et cetera, the tuition fees for, um, her education, et cetera, I was able to see that for me to live a life that feels.
comfortable and safe and grounded and satiating, where I'm not worried about my bills. I'm not worried if I have to pay an extra 500, 1000 pounds because something happened. If my car breaks down, I'm not having any worries about being able to meet those costs. I was able to and I was able to get to the pound that I need to 7,000, that hundred 27 found 27,000, sorry grounded in that data felt normal, felt possible, felt safe.
So I went from. being terrified at anything that was significantly more than the 47, 000 I was used to, to appreciating that for me to live a life that feels good and I'm not having to worry about money and scrimp and I'm able to save and invest, I would need to earn that amount of money.
And then that just felt like, okay, right, cool. That's what I need to do. And then I was able to look at my business and my business model and work out how I could create services that would allow me to create that kind of income in a way that felt ethical and good to me.
And by ethical and good to me, I am very clear about my target audience and there are some things, I don't know, like some of the, I read a little bit of, um, You Are a Badass at Making Money or one of those books, I think it was that one where she was talking about I sold my car to do coaching.
No, that doesn't rock with me. I don't want people to be investing with me from, I don't want dysregulated money. I don't mind money if there's a bit of a stretch, like this feels like a bit of a stretch, but I'm willing, I'm making a powerful choice. I'm in it to win it, so to speak. I'm here to make that an investment rather than a spend.
That's fine. I, I know where the people I work with are at, so I wanted to be able to create, um, services that would be able to be accessible for them. And I don't mean, when we talk about in the coaching industry, making things accessible, I'm specific about accessible for them, because there are some people in this world where 10 pounds is not accessible for them.
I'm very clear who my work is for and who it's not and, um, being able to price it accordingly. So they are able to access it and it's stretchy enough for them to say, right, I'm going to show up for this. And also enables me to make the money I want to make, because when I do that, I can show up as the best coach I can be rather than a coach who is dysregulated and unable to focus because I'm worried about where my next month's money's going to come from.
And that helps me decide to, um, not only because I think it's healthier and more harmonious for human beings to work over longer period of time. Um, I was able to establish that for me, it is better to work over long periods of time. So for example, when I first started, I had a coaching program that was 12 weeks long. Uh, I adapted that program and I made it a lot more robust and nervous system friendly and that program became 12 months. And even the 12 months we, we would joke about it and say, actually we need 12 years in this program. Um, but I work with people over a longer period of time because I don't want people to just get insights, I want them to be able to integrate and apply and make what they
Ashley: That’s definitely been something that I've discovered as well. Like the power of long work, the power of staying within and really like moving from this model of like, flashy results for a moment to more integrated, change.
Tamu: Yes. We want it to go deep into the bones.
Ashley: And I think that. In our culture that there is a real lack of spaces where we can feel held for longer than a second. And even like that need. I see that even within myself of like, I want to, I want to, I want to like take off my shoes and stay a while. I want to.
Tamu: Yes. Yes. I want to be known. I want to know you.
Ashley: As well of, of like, this is where I can go and this is somewhere I can be. And then on the flip side, it's also really beautiful for the service provider of creating, you know, predictability and stuff.
Tamu: Absolutely, absolutely. There's um, there's a book called A General Theory of Love. And there's a quote in there about something to do with love is being limbically known. And that stayed with me. Because, because that's what I provide in those coaching spaces, where you have got space enough. presence enough to be able to notice people's tells and the shift in their energy and know when people just need a moment to be held and where you can ask them a challenging question that helps them take radical responsibility for themselves in a manner that's really loving and compassionate and kind as opposed to activating and shaming.
Um, and we need time for that. We need space for that. There are times when you are, when I'm hot seat coaching, for example, and we just need a beat. We just need a beat to be silent and to gaze and to look away from the screen and maybe look at a plant in the background because that's going to give us a moment of co regulation so we can come back to the coaching.
And be grounded and be ready to be challenged. And that challenge could be being seen because in our society we learn to mask up all the time. So having that spaciousness is, is, is
Ashley: I would love to hear anything from you around if there's someone listening who really feels like they're just always in survival with their business, and they long for operating more out of safety, joy, feeling satisfied.
Tamu: I would invite them to get crystal clear on what safety looks and feels like, what joy looks and feels like, what, um, Satisfaction, looks and feels like, because we say these words without taking stock of what it actually means for us. Um, there was a woman I worked with. She was after this elusive 10, 000 pounds a month in her business and something kept feeling off about halfway through into our coaching relationship.
I asked her, where is this coming from? What does it mean to you? And she was able to share that. She thought she had to. All of her friends had businesses, uh, so she thought she had to. And I was like, well, what feels good for you? And she said, to be honest, my husband makes more than enough money to meet our everyday needs.
They didn't really go abroad. They had a caravan and would go on caravan holidays, which is what they loved. She said, to be quite honest, I feel ashamed to say this, I'd be happy working at my local bakery knowing that I've got enough money to buy my children, and if I pick their friends up after school, ice creams from my ice cream van, because ice cream van ice creams are expensive.
So she was chasing after a sense of joy, satisfaction and success that didn't belong to her. So if we can get radically honest about what we want, we're not going to be chasing something that doesn't even belong to us. We can start to create success standards that belong and start planning for that. But in our culture, we are prevented from getting close to ourselves and understanding what joy, satisfaction, et cetera, feels like, because if we're stuck on the dreadmill, And I do mean, Dreadmill, of chasing somebody else's success where easily commodified and exploited for the purpose of capitalism.
In our industry, it means that people bounce from coaching program to coaching program, spending money they haven't made back from the last program because they think, well, this is the one that's going to save me. Well, this is the one that's going to give me a special ingredient that I haven't got, or I haven't been able to get from somewhere else.
And that special ingredient might be actually the business you're trying to cultivate is not the business that wants to emerge through you. It's not the business where your soul. It's not the business that you're passionate about, you're doing it for the sake of it. So I, I would love to say, here's a three step process for this or that.
They get to know what helps you to feel safe and satisfied and grounded. And don't just think about the things, think about the people. And the environments, because sometimes the difficulty my clients faces, they're trying to make all of these changes, but the environments they are in, including the relationships, are so stuck on a previous version of themselves, there's not enough space for them to grow whilst they remain in those environments.
Ashley: What I really hear you saying is, in some ways, to make, to, to really draw closer to yourself.
Tamu: And when we do that, quite often, people in my circle anyway, can feel like that's quite a selfish endeavor, but when we get closer to ourselves, and we, we meet ourselves where we are, and we start to partner with ourselves where we are, As the most pro social creatures on this planet, who are hard wired for connection, we naturally extend that to other people and the planet.
So when we do it for ourselves, it creates a template that we then share in a symbiotic relationship with those around us and our natural environment. Mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm. see that in the way indigenous groups of people live in their relationship with each other and their relationship with the land. It becomes a symbiotic relationship where care is shared.
Ashley: Moving from, like, this individualistic lens into a collective lens. I have loved this convo, and I'm sure that you hear this a lot, but I, I feel like that you are a well of wisdom and not only a well of wisdom, but a well of wisdom that is also a powerful communicator.
Tamu: Why Ashley, I receive that wholeheartedly.
Ashley: Is there anything that you might want to share with those pursuing a more gentle way of business that you didn't get to touch on today?
Tamu: I would say to find yourself a business pal. Find yourself somebody who feel, somebody when you're around them, they feel like sunshine. In that, sunshine energises us. So that you can begin to have powerful conversations that encourage you to stand a bit taller and take up a bit more space. Uh, a relationship with somebody who is going to challenge you to break out of the habit of being you.
Outside of powerful coaching, those sorts of relationships have been so supportive for my growth because they've been able to remind me of agreements I have made with myself. And, uh, you know, because we make these agreements with ourselves, we set these goals. And in the busyness of day to day, we can forget those things.
And these people can serve as reminders and mirrors. So I would say get yourself some, uh, biz pals that don't mind the exchange of podcast sounding voice notes. And I'd also say buy my book! Because, uh, my book is going to help you to understand that one of the first, the first sentence in chapter one is it's not your fault.
We often walk around feeling like we're not doing these things because there's something wrong with us, we're defective, we're not doing things properly. But in my book, I share how the, I refer to the trinity of oppression, white supremacy, patriarchy and capitalism. They are designed for you to feel inadequate.
But when you begin to build a relationship with your body, beyond what it looks like, and you appreciate all the wisdom you contain, over millennia, over gen, um, over generations, you will start to have a newfound appreciation for yourself and you'll be able to start to repair the rupture in your relationship with yourself that has been caused by your conditioning.
Ashley: I love that. Thank you so much, Tamu, for being here. It's a joy.
Ashley: I hope that the conversation that you just heard between myself and Tammy was a gift to you. And I'd love to hear any thoughts that you have about it at any point. So feel free to send me a DM on Instagram and let me know what came up for you. If that feels supportive for you.
I also want to highlight one of our partners today, WillowSpace. And one of the amazing features that they offer. This will specifically really speak to those of you who are international / Canadian. Basically, if you're not American.
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And so I want to highlight that today for you. If you are wanting to check out WillowSpace, I highly encourage it. You can use the code GENTLE for $20 off. And if you have any questions on one of those spaces at all, don't hesitate to you, reach out and we can chat about it.
I hope that today wherever you are and whatever, you're up to you. Whatever is going on in your world that you. Are gentle with you. Because you are. So very deserving. Of care.